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Subject: Thanksgiving Risk
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EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
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Posts:170

26 Nov 2007 7:16 PM  

 

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: FriendsThaksgiving7
Risk Map: FriendsThaksgiving7 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

  

This game took place during Thanksgiving weekend with my friends. This game originally started out as a seven player game (we borrowed another set of armies from an earlier Risk Game set) and as such we changed a few of the rules for the first turn only and from then on it was like normal Risk with one exception.  The rule changes were: No one may eliminate a player on the First turn.  You may only stage three attacks during your First turn and the turn order was randomized after each go around.   This was done to prevent the players go last in the rotation to have an unfair disadvantage. 

The game started out smoothly and the new rules seemed to make sure that no one at the bottom of the rung go removed early just because they were last to go.  In fact, the first player eliminated from the game went second in each turn he was in the game.  That player who was eliminated was playing the purple set (to differentiate from the above colors) and he was based in Indonesia, Siam, Yakutsk, Egypt the Eastern US and Kamchatka before being eliminated.  He dies quickly because he had some bad blood with Yellow and Red who both vowed to make sure Purple would not take Australia and they wanted to eliminate him.  They were successful.  Lesson learned: don’t rub in your victories and don’t overuse diplomacy (See 2210 Back Stab, Purple in the Thanksgiving game was the Green player in the 2210 game). 

So now here we stand: Brown just went and eliminated Purple after Red ousted him from Australia.  It is in the middle of the game and the new turn order is: Green (2 cards), Brown (3 cards with no set), Black (3 cards with a set), Yellow (1 card), Red (3 cards, no set) and then Blue (3 cards with set) and the amount of armies for turning in cards at his point is at 8. 

Consider this from each color’s perspective and then lay out your strategy if you were Blue, what would you do? 

I was Blue in this game and I held onto my cards in the hope to get more value when other players traded in ahead of me.  Black came up the gut and took out two of territories in Southern and Northern Europe before I could cash. Red, Yellow and Green were inexperienced and Red left me alone and had an understood/secret alliance with Yellow.  Yellow was consistently pecking away at me in the Ukraine and Green was not doing much of anything although he did have a treaty with me at Iceland-Greenland.  Brown held to himself, fended off attacks and attacked only enough to get Risk cards and then at the last minute, launched a devastating attack to win the game and eliminate 3 players in succession.  If you were Blue, how would you set up your attacks if you were to go next?  What additional diplomacy would you use?  What would you change before hand? 

 


Grant Blackburn
Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


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28 Nov 2007 2:37 AM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: ResponceToFriendsThaksgiving
Risk Map: ResponceToFriendsThaksgiving --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

 

That must have been a very interesting game. It certainly seems very balanced at this point and just about anyone can go all the way to win. So it all comes down to see who intends to fight with whom.

Looking at the map I can see that you have completely eliminated a need to consider Green. You have a treaty with him and he doesn’t have much of an army anyway.

Black is confident in SA. So he is either going to expand into NA or Africa.  In this map Africa is surprisingly empty at this stage of the game. Either you don’t like it or everyone has missed it. If I were Black I won’t try to go to NA which is crowded both by Green and Brown. Africa is the perfect expansion route. So Black will come to Africa and will end up having borders with Blue in Europe.

Red is too occupied with Australia and at most is going to expand in Asia. Any move by Red will happen at later stages of the game, since Australia usually demands a defensive play as opposed to an offensive play. Besides Yellow almost blocks Red and they have a secret treaty. This means I, playing as Blue, don’t have to worry about Red.

As for Yellow, his back is covered with Red. He just has to worry about me in Europe or Africa. There is no one in Africa, so a good move for Yellow is to go to Africa and probably confront Black. Alternatively, if Yellow is not happy with me, he will start attacking me in Europe.

What happened in your game is similar. Black went all the way and attacked you, while Yellow didn’t stay still either. Brown and Red meanwhile carried on stock piling. Brown obviously has more access to the world and more expansion opportunities than Red, so I can see how Brown went to win.

Considering the total armies of players in the game (Black = 29, Brown = 31, Red = 29, Yellow = 20, Green = 19 and Blue = 26) I would say I have to watch out for Brown and Black. So I will cash in just to keep up with them. At this point Blue is very vulnerable. If one player attacks me, then others will easily join in and I will be gone. I just have to remove that incentive.

So I will cash in my cards and reinforce my borders. But that’s not enough. I need a bit more diplomacy. I want to make sure that the conflict in NA will keep Green, Brown and Black busy, so I just have to concentrate on Yellow. If I make a treaty with Black, when he comes to Africa, then I can secure this part of his borders. Then he needs to focus on the other side, so will go into a conflict over Central America with Brown.

This is not too difficult to achieve. Black’s expansion to Africa is lucrative to him especially if he doesn’t have to care about border security. If I have a good reputation as a deal maker, Black will be easily convinced to make the deal. With Europe-Africa border secured, I can concentrate on Yellow.

Playing as Europe feels like playing in the middle of the world. You are squeezed from all directions. What you need to do is to make sure that you are treated as a power to reckon with while at the same time a good ally to have. People like to have friends and Europe is always well-placed to become friend with anyone in the game since it has access to almost everywhere.

I guess you enjoyed the game, despite not winning it


Ehsan Honary
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28 Nov 2007 7:44 PM  
I very much appreciate your response to this scenario. I am hoping others in the Risk! community will chime in with their ideas as well. I have a few comments and questions for everyone:

First, I did enjoy this game very much for it taught me a lot of lessons and reinforced the lessons learned from this site and the book. Losing has the advantage of taking stock and learning from your mistakes and then watching the remaining players and their strategies.

Second, you suggested a Blue/Black treaty and this is something I did not try only because I felt it would not have worked, but I now realize I need to try it first before accepting defeat. In line with that, I definitely should have cashed cards but I didn't because I was too greedy.

Third, I feel now I should have worked Yellow and Red a little bit. I think I should have tried to push Red to grow out of Yellow, and next time I will definitely do that. Their little allegiance to each other was understood by many in the game even though it wasn't stated outright, but if I could have started a fight with them with words like: "Red, you will eventually lose because Brown and Black are growing too strong in parts of the world that you can't reach. You need to expand now before its too late. Your allegiance to Yellow is your Achilles heal." This of course was true later on, but it does me no good now (except maybe in the next game). Doing this would have taken some pressure off of me in Europe. Ehsan Honary has some great points: get an alliance with Black using the African-European border as incentive, concentrate on Yellow and find a way to deal with Brown.

So, my questions are this:
1. What if I can't get a treaty with Black, what are my options as Blue? I know Africa is lucrative and giving that to him is nice, but what if he doesn't believe I enforce the treaty and he refuses knowing he may be able to do it himself?
2. What if I can't break the Red-Yellow alliance and Yellow continues to pound on me? Where do I as Blue go from there?
3. Is taking Africa a good idea, given how strong Black has become? I though about relocating there and trying Brown's startegy of not worry about continents, but I didn't think it would work.
4. How do I get Brown on my side early, how do I negotiate something with him so I can have some of the pressure taken off of me that Black is creating? North America was really a stalemate throughout the game, so how can I sway the balance so that it is more of a battleground and therefore pressure is relived on my end as Blue?
5. How do I take advantage of Green and his naivete? He was no use to me as an ally, and that broke one of my cardinal rules: only ally with someone who can help you.

These questions plagued me throughout the game, to the point of paralysis by analysis, and this is my biggest weakness. When I play the computer or online game, I tend to be really agressive, but when I play my friends, it seems I play just to stay in long enough to say I wasn't eliminated early. I think having the answers will help me set up my plan so that I will act with more confidence.

Thanks again.

Grant Blackburn
Dan12User is Offline


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04 Dec 2007 2:43 PM  

Posted By Europa on 28 Nov 2007 7:44 PM
1. What if I can't get a treaty with Black, what are my options as Blue? I know Africa is lucrative and giving that to him is nice, but what if he doesn't believe I enforce the treaty and he refuses knowing he may be able to do it himself?
2. What if I can't break the Red-Yellow alliance and Yellow continues to pound on me? Where do I as Blue go from there?
3. Is taking Africa a good idea, given how strong Black has become? I though about relocating there and trying Brown's startegy of not worry about continents, but I didn't think it would work.
4. How do I get Brown on my side early, how do I negotiate something with him so I can have some of the pressure taken off of me that Black is creating? North America was really a stalemate throughout the game, so how can I sway the balance so that it is more of a battleground and therefore pressure is relived on my end as Blue?
5. How do I take advantage of Green and his naivete? He was no use to me as an ally, and that broke one of my cardinal rules: only ally with someone who can help you.

Interesting game. I have some ideas.

1. Can you get a treaty with Yellow. Can you get Yellow to attack Black instead. A strong Black owning both SA and Africa is very dangerous, especially if he is unwilling to make deals with you. So you need to get someone to attack him.

2. Then go for treaty with Black.

3. If you think you can't make deal with eaither Black or Yellow, and you feel you might be squeezed badly in Europe, you can "move" to Africa. I don't think this is a bad strategy actually, if you already think you are in trouble.

4. Unfortunately your deal with Green has diplomatically blocked you of NA. Now you dont have anything to offer Brown and you can't approach him easily. There is a competition between Green, Brown and Black and you are simply an outsider in that. You can only offer help by invading Brown's enemies. Now that is either Green or Black. With Green you have a treaty, so that leaves Black  which is  your number one problem anyway. But that's not going to buy you anything because Brown can also see that you have to attack Black anyway.

5. Yes. very true. Green deal is your biggest problem. Even breaking it doesn't benefit you anyway. I like your cardinal rule. At least, next time you know.

Cool game anyway.

EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
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Posts:170

07 Dec 2007 10:57 PM  
Getting a treaty with Yellow does seem like a good idea, and if possible getting one would be a boon considering that takes pressure off one side and allows me to concentrate more on Africa and Black. Problem here is the Yellow betrayed me in an earlier game, 2210 Backstab which I posted in this forum as well. I was hesitant to make a deal with him given our past although I pummled him in that game to hopefully teach him a lesson. Maybe trying for the deal would have been a good move and we could see where we go from there. Yellow also is inexperienced and already had a deal with Red and seemed as though he didn;t want to make anymore deals.

Going to Africa was something I had contemplated but was too timid to attempt. I realize my error now. I also erred with my treaty with Green, although it appeared at the time to be my only option. Maybe I should have moved into North America and joined the fight there. Having four armies in one continent can lead to quite a meltdown however.

It was a great game to learn from and the more I analyze it and read your comments, the more my mistakes become clear and this is helping me to learn a lot. Thanks for all of your comments, please keep them coming!

I think trying for a treaty with Black would make more sense, but the trick is: how to do it? How do I get Black (or Yellow in this case) to make a deal? How do I sell it to them so it appears that the deal will be beneficial for them if I take Europe?

Grant Blackburn
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