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King Posts:232
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16 Mar 2007 8:51 AM |
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I just read the diplomacy guide again, and I saw an article recommending against Nailing (nice turn of phrase by the way, I'll have to remember that), or the practice of holding a single territory in another continent to prevent another player getting that bonus.
Personally, I have found it to be very effective, especially in 4-player games and situations when your neighbour will get a bigger continental bonus than you. Yes, he'll probably throw everything at you, and you've definitely made an enemy, but you'll have your bonus and he won't, and it's better than him out-reinforcing you. For example, in a game I played some years back, a friend stopped me getting Africa, defeated me single-handed and won a 4-player game by taking South America and putting all of his forces in North Africa in the 1st turn.
At the end of the day though, there can be any number of mitigating factors, and as such I have to agree with the last sentence of the article, "Consider the trade-off, always get something useful in return for what you are going to give." Sound advice that.
Fuegan |
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King Posts:232
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16 Mar 2007 8:53 AM |
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I prefer to do things in this order.
1.form possible alliances with the person unless it is pointless. (not bordering one another)
2.build forces
3. perform complete continental sweep.
4.if unsucessful or too risky, then I use propoganda or ask for help
5. if that doesn't work, then I nail them
Of couse, I usually start out in Europe or North america and can easily overpower smaller continents but i can see nailing used often against an equal force or if starting in a smaller continent.
BALo |
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Imported Post
King Posts:232
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16 Mar 2007 8:54 AM |
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The problem with nailing is even though you may slow down that person from getting the bonus armies, you still waste armies that could have been used in a better place. So, unless you are bordering that continent and have plans to invade it (and you nail him to make him use up his forces) then nailing is useless.
llama54
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Imported Post
King Posts:232
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16 Mar 2007 8:54 AM |
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On the guide what you said about "Nailing" is completely wrong. You should think about certain circumstances when putting armies in another's territory is apprioate and correct your statements.
Basically if you can slow him down w/o hindering yourself it is a good idea to place armies there. Also if you've played anything but classic risk, you will notice cards, and other strategies that require you to place in others territories.
The judge of being able to slow them down w/o slowing yourself down, is if you can stay fairly even w/ him (ex. he has to place in more than one territory to take over the continent), or if he is on the other side of the world from you and cannot place in your continent. "Nailing" has it's place as a vailid tatic. I think you should adress this in your guide. |
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Ehsan Honary
Site Admin
King Posts:268
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16 Mar 2007 8:55 AM |
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[QUOTE]
I think you should adress this in your guide.[/QUOTE]
You have a good point and I agree with you. I shall update this section.
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Ehsan Honary
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Imported Post
King Posts:232
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16 Mar 2007 8:59 AM |
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[QUOTE]Ehsan Honary wrote
I think you should adress this in your guide. |
You have a good point and I agree with you. I shall update this section.
[/QUOTE]
I think the author did a good job of explaining different behavioral trends that develop - strong alliances, low nailing (although in my circle of friends we call this b****ing), high continent retention rate vs weak alliances, high nailing, low continent retention rate. I never really thought about this before because all my games were more of the latter - and I am glad the author brought this to my attention.
At first I thought what he wrote about nailing was wrong, because my friends find it to be essential and do it all the time, but then I read further and realized that depending on who you are playing with, its usefulness may vary. If people are going to leave you alone, then you don't really need to stick your neck out to nail someone - you should use your energy to secure your own continent. The only reason we nail so much in our game is because we don't think we're strong enough to attempt to hold a continent because we generally don't have as many alliances going on that would secure our other borders.
Engineer |
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Mr Strategist
Strategist Posts:29
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30 Apr 2007 4:04 PM |
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I found the article on nailing really useful. I was just thinking about this and it occurred to me that nailing seems to be the same as queuing. Imagine if you are standing in a queue. If no one jumps ahead, then there is no reason for you to do so. Every one will have a turn and it will be civilized. Imagine on the other hand if people standing in the queue start to jump ahead of you. What would you do? Normally you will complain, but of course when it comes to nailing, you cant complain about it. So you jump the queue as well. In fact in this situation everyone needs to jump the queue because if they don't, they will have a great disadvantage. This is exactly the same in nailing. Nail, or be nailed!
Cool. I really like this approach to use Risk and make analogies to real life. I am amazed that it works .... Ehsan, you have done a great job. |
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cyray7
Diplomat Posts:121
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26 May 2007 10:43 PM |
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i find that it is simple to defend from nailing. its called defending your borders...just saying. |
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Bismark08
Strategist Posts:14
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19 Feb 2008 7:48 PM |
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Nailing is important but one must show restraint. For S.A. it is SUPER IMPORTANT to have either North Africa or Central America. This is a good case. A bad case woould be nailing lets say greenland while your in Europe. The reason you have lots of borders to defend and the player in N.A. needs that bonus and probably has his other borders pretty secure. This means he will retake greenlan and probalby nail you in Iceland. This will effectively F$#K you unless you have cards ready. The whole idea of this is think before you nail. Yes it will be good in the short term but think it through it is a major desicion. |
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Bismark08
Strategist Posts:14
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19 Feb 2008 8:22 PM |
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To help illustrate my last reply I made some handy dany maps.
the first one illustrates good nailing. lets say your green and went first. You took S.A. in one turn and managed to Nail central america. This is good because N.A. is still divided and will take problably two turns to unite which by then will be much stronger. Also because of Yellow Red fighting in Africa that border will be safe for a while.
Risk Map: Nailing-G --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor
The second map is bad nailing at it's finest.
First of all Green nailing red a is ok because he has the troops to defend it and Black in North America has his own problems.
Red nailing yellow bad. It left him open in Africa and will create bloody fight between them.
Yellow nailing black bad as well because now he has to take back Europe and defend against Black.
Black has to retake greenland and might nail yellow in spite which would be a good move since yellow would have to try and defend two borders at once.
Blue lucked out and is free to slowly expand while building up men good chance of winning.
Risk Map: Nailing-B --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor
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Ehsan Honary
Site Admin
King Posts:268
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20 Feb 2008 7:42 AM |
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Very nice post Bismark08. That clearly shows the advantages and disadvantages of nailing. Like many techniques in Risk, nailing is another tool in the toolbox that if used correctly can be powerful and if not used correctly can be very costly. |
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Ehsan Honary
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