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Subject: The psychology of other players matter
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EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
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02 Jul 2007 6:40 PM  

 When you think about your diplomatic options, the psychology of other players matters a lot.  Some players are more likely to align and others are not.  Those that do align may be backstabbers or the best friends you ever had in Risk.  You need to get to know your opponents before you can make a smart decision about it. 

Playing a game with some one for the first time or playing with someone who isn't a regular presents an interesting challenge.  I recently played two games of Risk 2210 AD with some friends over a two month period (one game one month, another game the next) and two of the guys we played with don't normally play with us and they are inexperienced to boot.  This creates an interesting diplomatic challenge: how do you know you can trust them?

In the first game, I was in North America and South America (or the 2210 AD equivalent) and I was doing pretty well early on, especially once I expanded to the moon and some of the water colonies.  My first choice for an alliance was with my neighbor in Africa so I could concentrate on the Moon and the Oceans.  He would have none of it.   In fact, he got so powerful early on, the rest of ganged up on him and he was bitter the rest of the night.  I aligned with a friend of mine, and the two of us being very experienced, won the game.  This game was interesting in that I had an "in" with my friend and we did rather well against two inexperienced players who didn't align with each other until it was too late.   Having that in my back pocket, the rest of the game was relatively easy for me. 

The next game we played with them, I had thought that the lesson was learned by them that an alliance is a good idea and one they need to think about early and not late.  I was in North America again and thinking about expanding to Asia and the Moon.  I had a devastation marker in Greenland which meant I had only two borders to protect in North America (I felt very fortunate!).  My neighbor in South America was building up in Central America and I was in an arms race with him.  I didn't want to waste time dealing with that so I offered an alliance with him early so I could focus on my other exploits.  He seemed to agree and so I used some of the armies in Central America to go to the Moon (I had a base there).  Meanwhile, my friend (who incidentally is the same guy I won the previous game with) engaged in some secret diplomacy on the other end of the table to get him to backstab me.  It worked and I got jobbed.  Okay, lesson learned. 

Now, once that happened, I immediately turned my attention to the guy who backstabbed me and I announced this to the world.  In fact, right before he betrayed me I warned him not to do so or else he would pay.  He didn’t seem to realize that his move would help him in the short term, but hurt him later.  His attack on me expsed his other front (which is why my friend tried to divert his attention to backstabbing me so he can go up into his back end) and eventually he faced a two front war.  He couldn’t eliminate me and the rest of the players saw what happened and immediately came to my rescue to “teach him a lesson”.  He ended up being the first person eliminated and I survived but I didn’t make it to the end game (I think I came in third out of five).  What was really funny was that we all told him we would remember this incident in later games and he didn’t think it was fair that his diplomatic blunder should be carried from one game to the next.  That is just life and sometimes we have to learn the hard way. 

The upshot of all this is to really take into consideration what your opponents are capable of and plan accordingly.  My mistake was to trust someone who I hardly knew and to forget that my friend is capable of some creative diplomacy on his part.  My friends can be very crafty when devising strategies and diplomacy and in retrospect, that game taught me a lot of lessons that I won't forget. 


Grant Blackburn
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08 Jul 2007 4:31 AM  

This is an excellent practical example on how to deal with strangers. It is well known in Game Theory that the most dangerous player is a player you are only going to play once with. He can betray you and run away. Hence, it is very risky to trust a new player that you and others dont know and have never played with.

As a new player, you should always try to gain the trust of others even if this means losing the first game. Otherwise you will always be labled as 'untrustable' and will take you a long time to recover from.


Ehsan Honary
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24 Jul 2007 4:12 PM  

It is so true that to be successful you need to understand the psychology of your opponents.  The player that played with us and ultimately betrayed me saw no reason not to betray me because he didn't realize that conduct carries over from game to game.  This is the real-world effect that you can learn from Risk that once you burn a bridge, it is much harder to re-build it. 

I also want to point out that one of the reasons he reneged on our deal was because my opponent, Fred (as Green), was working his own diplomacy after we had made the deal.  Fred was strong in Australia and beginning to grow in Asia and several of the sea colonies and also looking to expand to the moon.  In reality, he was my main advesary since he was sure to last until the end of the game.  Once he saw that a deal was made, he realized that he was going to lose unless he could find a way dissolve the alliance between me in North America and Yellow who owned South America and most of Africa.  Since he realized that such a scenario spelled his doom, he began working right away. His diplomacy paid off in spades since he was eventually able to get rid of one of his opponents (Yellow), one that was right on his border that was poised to attack him if he didn't act right away.  Fred made it look like I was getting too powerful and that since I bordered Yellow over Central America-Venezuela, I was going to attack Yellow and that made him nervous.  Fred's diplomacy was so skilled and instilled so much fear that Yellow felt he had to act against me.  I was impressed by his skill at negotiation and from that point forward I made sure everyone knew that breaking a deal with me was akin to breaking a deal with the Devil; so I kicked Yellow's but and he as a result, he lost! (With a little help of course.) Since then, whenever I play the game with my friends, they are quick to accept a deal with me since they know I won't break it, and they are scared to death to break it with me since they know what will happen to them!  That game helped set the stage for many later games and people don't forget. 

The lesson here: You can forgive, but Never Forget!


Grant Blackburn
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19 Dec 2007 10:33 PM  
Nice posts... All of it absolutely true. As for myself, I'm completely trustworthy, and have never broken an agreement except for once:

Once our regular group was playing with a new player. He had Africa; I had Europe. There was a growing threat coming out of Australia who's intentions were yet unknown, but he was coming West! I formed an alliance with "Mr. Africa" so I could start fortifying my Eastern front to meet the coming threat if necessary.

"Mr. Africa" on the very next turn, cashes cards and mounts an all-out European invasion from North Africa and Egypt. I was sent reeling into some scattered North Asian territories... my continent lost, but a good chunk of my army still intact. (remember we play w/ defensive retreats)

The other players smelled blood apparently and within a few turns I was out, but at least "Mr. Africa" did not win.

The very next time we played was was a couple more new players to our group, but "Mr. Africa" showed up again. That's fine, we welcome all players. Well, half-way through the game "Mr. Africa finds himself in a jam trying to secure Europe with every other player around him getting stronger. I am in North America this time. He asks every neighbor for a treaty, but doesn't get it one. (I wonder why.)

Then, (if you can believe this) he sheepishly asks me for one, with part of the treaty being that neither player can further fortify neither Iceland nor Greenland more than they currently are for 4 turns. He couples his request with a very half-asses apology for his deeds last game. I agree to the treaty and get up to grab a drink, but can still here what is being said in the game-room. Basically, "Mr. Africa" is asking the other players whether or not he has anything to fear from me in regards to our agreement in light of how he screwed me in the last game. I heard my friends saying things like. "I've never known him to break an alliance" etc. etc.

"Mr. Africa" is just about stabilized Europe and back on his feet, when I cash-cards and charge into Europe from Greenland. I knocked him down to 3 territories and made sure he only had 1 card when I did it. I eliminated him next round. "Your friends said you were completely trustworthy!" "Yes," I said, "to every Risk player in the world... except you." BUT, I made sure that everyone that saw me betray my alliance knew the history of why I did it, and my friends verified it. My friends, by the way, helped me quite a bit feeding him those lines, knowing full-well that I wouldn't let his betrayal go unpunished.

If I have a motto in Risk, I guess it would be this: "I do not ACT poorly in Risk, but REACT horribly.
EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
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20 Dec 2007 2:38 PM  
This was a fun story to read. First of all, well done. I have to agree that there are certain times breaking your alliance is okay, and what you illustrated was one of those situations. I can tell you that what you did was not only justified, but needed to be done. When one breaks a deal, all bets are off. You have to be able to punish the player that breaks the deal and in all fairness if he expects to make a deal with you and then when convenient break it, he should only expect the same thing in return. The Golden Rule definitly applies here.

Your story is so great and inspiring, I have put it into my bag of tricks. JUSTICE baby!

Grant Blackburn
Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


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21 Dec 2007 5:04 AM  

Nice one UnH!nged 

Sounds like tit-for-tat to me which is the best strategy in the long run over multiple Risk games. Like to know if your friend learnt his lesson and played better next time. In any case, your move is the right way to punish and break the pattern. Of course you may have lost both games, but as they say you have gained respect!

Great post.


Ehsan Honary
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Diplomat
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21 Dec 2007 5:43 PM  
There are many ways to claim victory.

Grant Blackburn
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Forums > RISK > Diplomacy and Psychology in Risk > The psychology of other players matter