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UnH!ngedUser is Offline


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20 Dec 2007 5:46 AM  
Posted By Ehsan Honary on 20 Dec 2007 3:26 AM

 "From Argentina, you only have two choices and I can easily read your next moves."

 

That's true, indeed. But, When GREEN'S first selection is a SA territory, how much can he really hide with a second selection anywhere in the vicinity? At this point in the game and especially with the SA configuration, wouldn't you say that location would outweigh stealth?

 

 

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20 Dec 2007 3:43 PM  
Good point. What is more important, tactical position or stealth? A better question for me is, how do you place armies on the board in a stealthy manner? This could be fun. By the way, it is Green's turn: What is the best move for Green right now? Stay in South America or move to Africa? Is there a deal in the works with Red, or with they me locked in mortal combat in the "Christmas War"?

Someone take Green's turn and lets see what YOU would do. Lets continue . . .

Grant Blackburn
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21 Dec 2007 6:48 AM  
Posted By UnH!nged on 20 Dec 2007 5:46 AM
Posted By Ehsan Honary on 20 Dec 2007 3:26 AM

 "From Argentina, you only have two choices and I can easily read your next moves."

 

That's true, indeed. But, When GREEN'S first selection is a SA territory, how much can he really hide with a second selection anywhere in the vicinity? At this point in the game and especially with the SA configuration, wouldn't you say that location would outweigh stealth?

 

 

In the beginning you just want to get your continent as fast as possible without other interrupting you. So also deception is important, but yes you are right it is not as important as locations. However I think as location goes, borders are more valuable than inside territories. This is a four player game, so I expect Red to get at least 6 to 7 territories in NA before it is completely taken. So the territories will be more or less connected. However I think it is much more valuable to have two missing territories in the middle than say not to have Alaska and Greenland. That will be a problem if they get nailed later on. It is however less likely for inside territories to get nailed.


Ehsan Honary
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21 Dec 2007 6:56 AM  
Posted By Europa on 20 Dec 2007 3:43 PM
locked in mortal combat in the "Christmas War"?

 

I hope they dont  get stuck in this war  forever  ...


Ehsan Honary
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21 Dec 2007 12:03 PM  

To unhinged!: I agree with you there ,but Peru would be a better option as you said before, link (connect) territories.


2¢ is my son so we have the same email. Sorry for any confusion.
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21 Dec 2007 1:25 PM  

These conversations are great.  I think filling in the inside may need to be done sooner rather than later, since you can get eaten up from the inside out.  I will be interested to see how this map looks when it is all done and to see what strategy will come of it.  Below is the continuation of this map, and I have filled in Green's turn which is to continue in South America.  I take Peru since Argentina is more isolated so if someone takes that territory from me, it will be easier to contain.  Peru has access to both Brazil and Venezuela, not a good thing if you are trying to establish a continent. 

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res4
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res4 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

Who will take the next move?  What will Blue's next move be? 


Grant Blackburn
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23 Dec 2007 9:13 PM  

Hmmm... I think Blue should take Eastern Australia or Western Australia. I think Eastern as it will fill the inside. whaddaya think? Maybe put in Argentina and hope not to get in a war of attrition?


2¢ is my son so we have the same email. Sorry for any confusion.
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24 Dec 2007 4:43 AM  
Sam you are right on track between deciding for Australia or South America and their benefits. But I am curious to know what everyone thinks on deciding between the two options. Let's have a quick vote and say why.

I will put in Australia becuase I would be more interested to get my continet before Brown srews up my plans. Don't see any need to get into conflict with Green so soon in the game.

What do you think. Suggest an option and then we go with the option that is most voted for.

Ehsan Honary
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24 Dec 2007 4:53 AM  
I think Australia has got to be the initial focus. The position is there and a quick 2 xtra armies per turn never hurts either. :) Green is making his intent readily apparant in SA, challenging him this early for it could cause an early exit for one, if not both of you.
SamUser is Offline


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24 Dec 2007 12:28 PM  
I think Australia(new guinea) but am still open to thoughts.

2¢ is my son so we have the same email. Sorry for any confusion.
EuropaUser is Offline


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24 Dec 2007 1:24 PM  

Well, if you are playing as Blue in Australia in this scenario,  place a Blue army in Argentina and prevent at least the inital conquering of South America by Green. Australia still needs two more territories at this point and will likely have one of the opponents prevent him from getting all of Australia. I just think the need to prevent someone from taking a continent is very important, especially early in the game. You don't have to have a strong presence in Argentina, just a presence.

IF Blue doesn't do it, I will forgive him, since he is also chasing his own 4 territory continent, but then the onus falls on Brown which is something he may not like and he may end up taking an Australian territory. Perhaps diplomacy is needed here. 


Grant Blackburn
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25 Dec 2007 4:35 AM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res5
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res5 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor


I see that there is a already two opposing camps both with good reasons to either go for Australia or Argentina. The vote camp tilts on Australia so I guess we will go ahead with that. 

Even this simple example shows how many varieties of gameplay there are and each with their corresponding consequences.

As for diplomacy suggested by Grant, its a good idea though practically any initiation of diplomacy may quickly lead to polarise the world. Say, as soon as you want to have an agreement with Brown, Green may become hostile to you. So you may need to avoid diplomacy at this very early stage if you can get away with it (or what you want is too small to gain for the price you pay).

It also depends on the player types and their history, something which is a bit unknown in this game. If I knew Brown and could count on him/her, then I may negotiate a deal, but even then Brown has little to gain by giving up the continent to me. Brown on the other hand could be an expansionist player who wont make any deals and is planning to get Australia 3 turns later, In which case securing Australia becomes top priority.

Ok, now is Brown's turn. Up to you guys ,...


Ehsan Honary
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30 Dec 2007 3:15 PM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res5
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res5 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor


As Brown, I have no choice but to place an army in Eastern Australia as I am in direct competition with Blue and I can't allow him to start with a continent. 


Grant Blackburn
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04 Jan 2008 4:04 AM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res6
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res6 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

This is a typical situation. I like to do a bit of analysis. Playing as Red, I have two choices:

  • Place in Argentina to make sure Green (playing next) will not get the continent.
    • Plus: Green will not get 2 armies right from the beginning of the game.
    • Minus: I have to spend 1 army there which will be lost when attacked. I will also fall behind 1 territory on getting North America.
  • Place in North America to complete my continent.
    • Plus: Will be quicker to finish NA my primary continent.
    • Minus: Green will move to finish his continent and then will naturally come to place in North America and I wont be able to retaliate.

Considering all this, I will choose to place in North America.  Green is  going to  get his continent anyway, so  why waist armies. The difference is 1 army, but in return I get one more country in my continent. That's much more valuable because otherwise I have to fight to get it which requires 1 army as a minimum and several more if I get unlucky. It's simply not worth it.

I choose Western United States so that my territories can be connected and also try to discourage Green from placing just behind my border.

These maps are becoming really interesting since they expose so may issues. Let's get it rolling ...  Blue is next

EuropaUser is Offline


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05 Jan 2008 7:34 PM  
Thanks, I am glad these maps are doing what was intended. I agree, many issues reagrding this area of play are important to discuss and since this phase of the game sets up the rest of the startegy you will need to use, I feel it is critical.

I would like to pse a few questions before Blue takes his move:
First, by not placing in South America, Red exposes himself to a serious liability. How do you plan to mitigate that later in the game? I don't think it is one army, it is more than that: first you eliminate two bonus armies right off the bat and also Green needs to spend some armies to take the continent in the first place, so it really is at least a four army difference here.

Second, by not taking Argentina, isn't Red raising the ire of the other players? How does Red not placing in Argentina not make the other players overly suspcious of Red in the future? It seems as though he is out for himself and I know from experience that when one takes a continent away from another player, the others in the recognize that as team play and tend to look upon you more favorably. What is your experience?

As Blue, do you go into Asia and back fill so that Brown is really stuck or do you take Argentina away from Green now that Red has chosen not to?

Grant Blackburn
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